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Podcast – Investing Overseas

Stefan Angelini is Joined by Chris Wheldon to discuss investing into International Stocks. Companies like Apple, Amazon, Facebook or Alphabet. Chris is the co-lead portfolio manager with Hamish Douglas on the international high-conviction strategy. They focus on finding the best 8-12 companies in the world for their investors. Join us was we discuss how he finds the best companies, his view in Exchange Rates in International Investing and even as he compares Tesla and Facebook.


Stefan Angelini

Good day everyone. Thanks again for joining us for another episode of investor types. We're talking about investing into international businesses today, which is a very exciting topic and things that a lot of people are thinking of doing a want to do. Think about investing into companies like Google, Apple, Amazon, all these companies that you say everywhere. And we're talking with an expert in this field today, talking with Chris Wheldon from Magellan. Chris, thanks a lot for coming on with this, mate. Really appreciate you being here. Giving up the time. First of all, you find a suit today. Fantastic. Living in the days of isolation, wear whatever we want. Now, if you don't know who Magellan is or planets and you don't watch not cricket. Magellan's one of the biggest sponsors of the Australian test. They they sponsored the Australian tests last few years.


Chris Wheldon

We did have a sponsorship agreement for the Ashes a few summers ago. But there's the ball tampering issue result in that that contract.


Stefan Angelini

Not something gonna be assoc. All right. Not something gonna be associated with, I guess. Ball tampering. Insider trading. Don't associate too. No just kidding. So Magellan Magellan, one of the best known investment managers in Australia from an international perspective. And what I love what you do, so Magellan run a few different strategies that run the broader strategy run by Hamish Douglass. And then you work alongside Hamish Douglass in the the more conviction strategy focusing on, say, eight to twelve really cool companies. And what that's what I really want to get you on, because you look for the best of the best. So when you look to invest overseas, who are some of the businesses that you do invest into?


Chris Wheldon

Yeah. That's sound it's a good question Stefan it's it's right, we call it internally the best ideas fund. So we do get to be very patient and very disciplined around setting very high hurdles effectively. You know, we want the highest quality businesses and the most undervalued high quality businesses


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

With you know very attractive long term growth tailwinds. Well, there's a lot of things behind them. So in the portfolio at the moment, with those things in mind, we've got positions in a couple of enterprise software companies like Microsoft and STP that really benefit from cloud computing in the U.S. and hopefully decades to come. We've got a couple of Chinese digital platforms, AliBaba and Tencent, who really play across the digital ecosystem. In China, we've got two of the leading US digital platforms, Alphabet and Facebook. And the audience will be very familiar with those businesses.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah


Chris Wheldon

Both of these are which really benefits from this ongoing, sustained transition from cash and check payments around the world to card based payments and online payments and tech to go payments sort of things. And then we've also got a position in Estee Lauder as well, which similar to our investing in Starbucks. So Estee Lauder and Starbucks, one of the key growth engines for those businesses in the decades to come will be the growth in the consumption sector within China, particularly towards the sort of mass affluent and affluent part of the consumption pyramid. In the years and decades to come,


Stefan Angelini

As it becomes more middle class or the middle class in China becomes richer, they spend more money on coffee, which we already spend too much money on in Australia,


Chris Wheldon

Hopefully. There should be more disposable income in China and that will benefit AliBaba's businesses, Tencent businesses, but also Estee Lauder and Starbucks business in China as well.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah I can see there's a big tech presence there and specifically that the visa plan in the movement to online payments. I guess I'm still trying to convince my grandfather that cash is gone. Cash is not king anymore and he still tries to go to like a supermarket and pay cash and they don't accept it. And then he he gets angry. And like,


Chris Wheldon

You know, this sort of environment, cash. You know, people don't want to be sort of handling or accepting cash too much at the moment. So maybe this is accelerant, his change in behavior. And we are saying that the world people, you know, that that that the card companies talk about this war on cash, that


Stefan Angelini

yeah


Chris Wheldon

sort of faintness structural growth channel for a long, long time on now. And of course, no one wants to handle cash at the moment or accept cash. So it's just a further accelerant to the trends that were already in place.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah


Chris Wheldon

But provides, conviction around the long term addressable opportunity that those businesses have.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah. So in order to get the internally best, best finds or best ideas, how do you find them? What do you look for?


Chris Wheldon

Well, you know, we've got a final, I guess, where right at the top funnel is, we've got an investment committee at Magellan that's approved, you know, a couple of hundred wonderful businesses, super high quality businesses. And we're thinking about sustainable, long term competitive positions of those businesses. And so effectively, that's a shopping list there's sort of two hundred roughly businesses that have been approved by our investment committee as meeting at all the hurdles. And then you mentioned earlier, the Global Fund, Hamish Douglass is Global Fund.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

tends to run around twenty five positions. So it's already quite a concentrated portfolio.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah.


Chris Wheldon

And then Hamish and I could manage the high conviction fund, which is just further down the funnel. It's the eight to 12 best ideas. So we've got an analyst team, an investment team at Magellan. We've got 30 people guys and girls, wonderful and most like super bright, incredible, incredible analysts. And they are doing work on those couple of hundred businesses that we cover. And then we just get to patiently wait markets give us opportunities from time to time and we'll look to invest in those really high quality businesses in that universe. But we'll invest in in the portfolios when we find them available at a really attractive valuation.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah.


Chris Wheldon

So that's that's kind of the way the funnel works. But the high conviction strategy can sort of get into the mid-cap space. So it might look a little bit different from Global Fund from time to time because we've just opened up the mid-cap universe to mid-cap but high conviction, rather. But but that doesn't work. The Global Fund built but by and large, very similar portfolios just in high conviction. But outsized exposure to the very best of ideas that we can find at Magellan.


Stefan Angelini

So you spoke before, back when they come to a good valuation, see you know, who the companies out you want to buy, but they need to come to a good value, which means a good price. And you're saying great valuations come out recently. But when we talk about there's always these arguments in value and growth, am I looking for a company at a good valuation or I want a company that's going to grow a lot? What do you what do you consider to be more important and advice too.


Chris Wheldon

I wouldn't could contrast it, I wouldn't suggest it's an aura, I'd suggest it's an end you know one value and growth.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah,


Chris Wheldon

really the way we think about it and we honestly, the way we think all you know. Ben, Ben Graham's book, The Intelligent Investor, it all into it all intelligent investing is value investing at the end of the day. Just within that broad church, you value investing. We want to also invest in those undervalued businesses that do have the tailwinds behind them, sort of sit structural growth tailwinds will allow for that growth in that compounding of those businesses over time because, you know, that's what we want to deliver to our clients is absolutely returns.


Stefan Angelini

yeah


Chris Wheldon

we don't care much about betting markets. We want to protect clients capital in falling markets. But over time, what we really want to do is provide that compounding journey for our clients. That means we need to own businesses. At the end of the day, that will also grow the earnings and that cash flows and improve their economics. But we don't want to pay too much for those either,


Stefan Angelini

you do


Chris Wheldon

Even for the wonderful businesses. You can't pay too much. So we think of growth and value as being very important.


Stefan Angelini

Awesome, any portfolio look, you got some amazing names that everyone recognizes. You know, you can't you can't look through your portfolio and go I don't know that is and when it comes to valuing these businesses, what if you could say when you're valued in international business, what's the one most important factor you look for?


Chris Wheldon

I don't think it's any different from valuing a domestic business and it's no different, frankly, in our mind for valuing a business or a property or any asset. You know, we're trying to judge conservatively and with the sort of range of outcomes in mind, we're just trying to judge the future cash flows of that business or any other asset over its lifetime and discount those cash flows back to a present value today and compare that conservative estimate of fair value to a share prices. And that's what you get. Hopefully that margin of safety values up here prices down here and you got that margin of safety in between. So we know we're got to get it wrong. No, we don't have perfect foresight. And even in these wonderful businesses, things change. And so we want to insist always on having a very wide margin of safety and markets give us that opportunity from time to time. He mentioned, you know, pretty recently in March, markets were moving around quite a bit. And they do that from time to time. And we like to use that as an opportunity to add invest. I find more of these wonderful businesses at great valuations.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah awesome and I guess that's what most people don't take into consideration, sometimes you do get it wrong or it takes time for you to get it right. Doesn't always happen straight away because markets are just tricky things. Volatility happens. One of the questions that asked recently in regards to specific businesses I got asked something other day. I want to get your opinion on it. If you could choose one of these two companies, Tesla or Facebook. Who would you choose out of them and why?


Chris Wheldon

That's a that's it sounds like a loaded question, but it's it was the reason I smirk. Because I often use those two businesses as an example and some of the presentations I get it.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah.


Chris Wheldon

I promise we rehearsed this ahead of time because it really illustrates the point around quality outargue. Both of those businesses arguably have long term growth tailwinds behind them.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap.


Chris Wheldon

Tests will benefit from the growth in electric vehicles over time.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

Facebook is benefiting from the growth in digital advertising, as well as the other parts of Facebook you know shops and messaging and video and all the things that that Facebook is getting into as well. So you got two businesses in growing industries. Then we step back and try and judge the quality of those two businesses, because what we want to try and figure out is, yes, they growing industries, who gonna be the winners? Who can we have conviction will be the winners of these in these industries five years from now and 10 years from now.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

And it seems to us that with Tesla, even though it's in it's in a growing industry, that the auto manufacturing space is just an inherently competitive industry. And Tesla has some wonderful advantages. You know, that their first mover, they got a good brand at the end of the day. They're an auto manufacturer and they're competing with other very capable, very well resourced global auto manufacturers. And so it just it's harder for us to see in five years and 10 years, even though there will be more electric vehicles sold around the world. It's harder for us to judge whether Tesla account for five percent, 15 percent, 50 percent, or all of those electric vehicles sold around the world. Whereas social networks and Facebook in particular, just given the network effects and the switching costs and all the quality associated with a business like Facebook five years from now, 10 years from now, I think you can have a high degree of conviction that the dominant social network in most Western countries will still be Facebook, or at least be apps owned by Facebook, including Facebook itself, but also Instagram and WhatsApp and Messenger. Those will likely remain the dominant social networking messaging apps in most Western countries five years from now and 10 years from now. So it just it leads both very good businesses today, both in attractive industries. But I think five years from now, 10 years from now, I think you have high degree of conviction that dominant Facebook will remain the dominant social networking business and just less conviction that Tesla will remain the dominant manufacturer of a base in the future.


Stefan Angelini

Competition competition is so important. If you got competitors can come in and do exactly what you're doing at a cheaper price, not for a cheaper product. Brand brand begin to diminish them or you don't have as much demand.


Chris Wheldon

Well, that is that is the nature of capitalism. And it is incumbent on us always to stress test the thinking around the long term quality of our businesses, because it's true that at some point in the future, we can sort of really foresee it right here today. But at some point in the future, great businesses like Facebook, like Alphabet, like Amazon, like Microsoft, they also will likely be disrupted. It's it's just the nature of capitalism. It hasn't happens time and time again. You know, if we were having this conversation two decades ago, we would value some of the strongest, strongest businesses on the planet where newspapers and look. And they genuinely were at that point in time. But look at what has happened to that industry. They get displaced like it disrupted capitalism competition. Your point just continues to attack those wonderful businesses. And we know the same thing is happening with the wonderful businesses we love today. It's incumbent on us re-tests that thinking around quality. It's also incumbent on the people running those businesses to keep reinventing them and to keep pivoting, to keep opening up new sources of growth in the future and sort of really maintaining that mark around that business.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap. So many guys look into it, guys, pretty in-depth. And there's been a lot of conversation recently around. Well, why not? Why wouldn't you buy an index fund or an international index fund as opposed to trying to invest on my own and buy shares on my own or buy shares or use manage funds who who specialize in buying the right businesses? What I'm trying to get at here, Chris, is you guys, you don't even think yourself. You don't even target and performance of a specific index. So what do you prefer to invest into individual assets as opposed to buying an index?


Chris Wheldon

I think it goes back to the point I made earlier about having, you know, a very, very capable investment team. We can spend all day, every day sifting through the thousands of investible securities are out there, many of which end up in those global international indices. But we just get to limit our universe to super high quality companies


Stefan Angelini

Yeap.


Chris Wheldon

and then link our portfolios, to those wonderful businesses, at attractive valuations in an index you can own everything, a high quality stuff and the low quality stuff and everything in between, as well as the overvalued stuff and the undervalued stuff and everything in between.


Stefan Angelini

yeah


Chris Wheldon

And look, that's for for a buy and hold. Long term investor who wants international diversification at a low cost, an index certainly plays a role. And that one has been proven. And unfortunately, the reality is for our industry, the active management industry, most of us haven't earned our fees over time. And so on an after fee basis, passive index investing, there's a very strong case for hopefully, you know, folks like ourselves by virtue of the wonderful investments we have, are going through the process. We have the portfolio construction tools that we have and hopefully some good decision making from time to time on and off the fee basis. Hopefully we can do a little better than the index. But like you mentioned, we're not actually targeting. What we want to do is deliver, you know, attractive, absolute returns to investors going forward.


Stefan Angelini

And that's where it's incumbent on financial advisors such as myself to to pick to choose the right managers that we believe have long term conviction, good, good resources within the company to continually outperform if we are I doing to use it management in the portfolio at all. And because you're right, as so many out there that haven't proved their worth haven't haven't haven't got what they face about getting paid full, which is unfortunate, but it's the way that based Web based is.


Chris Wheldon

It is. And you can tie it directly back to your prior question around competition. The active management has just become so much more competitive in recent that it's harder on average to outperform.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap And you've got active managers applying international space, active managers applying the property space, the Australian equity space. You guys specialize in what you manage anyway in international companies and they've got an infrastructure fund as well.


Chris Wheldon

Yeap


Stefan Angelini

But international companies. What do you say is when you look when you compare Australian companies versus international companies, so NABS versus overseas company like Facebook. What do you say is the main difference between Australian companies and international companies? A lot of people that I talk to, it's many around the income that's paid from Australian companies because I've had a lot of their profits. International companies, a little bit different. They tend to, keep, to keep the cash and reinvest it back into the business. What is the main difference between Australian businesses and overseas?


Chris Wheldon

But that might be part of it. That might also be sort of to broader a point. You know, I don't know if I can I agree because I just don't know the data. You know, we cover those couple of hundred companies that we don't spend much time looking at the rest of the world,


Stefan Angelini

Yeah Yeah China


Chris Wheldon

Australia versus everything else out there. I'd say the biggest difference we find from investing Australia to investing outside of Australia is just recognising that Australia is a wonderful company. I love Australia, but it's quite a narrow economy and it's an even narrower share market. You know, there's not a lot of sector diversity. It's you know, we've all seen the statistics around the top 20, the top 50 ASX. They are all skewed to a couple of sectors as you step outside of Australia and start investing internationally. You just get exposure to many, many more different industries. Of course, many more regions. And there are you know, we are not fanatic investors, as I mentioned. We just love finding these wonderful businesses that have tailwinds behind them instead of facing headwinds in front of them. We just it seems to us it is those long term tailwinds are more prevalent outside Australia than inside Australia. It is true that we have businesses here to play to, you know, the growth in Chinese consumption. We have businesses that play to, you know, the growth in digital payments and things like that. But if we look outside of Australia, we just find more of those wonderful businesses that really benefit from a vast variety of both different long term growth tailwinds. And there might be fewer of those opportunities here in Australia.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah, yeah. Not fair enough. People like invest into Australia because the lot of Times, I know the names they're investing in, but now if you look overseas, you still find names that you know and names you can believe in. But the one thing it's that people don't really take into consideration when they go to invest overseas is how the currency changes or exchange rate plays into returns.


Chris Wheldon

Yeah.


Stefan Angelini

So, for instance, we call these normally taking a hedge and unhedged exposure, hedge being you can sort of locking your currency risk unhedged you play with exchange rates. And more recently, if you've seen the Australian dollar drop or your international losses haven't gone down by as much. But now we're saying if the Australian dollar rises, while you're not getting as many returns, your international exposure, I mean, up and down, you've got sort of two place. I know that the the more broader strategy doesn't really have an exchange rate play or currency play, whereas the fund you manage that takes it takes a currency approach as well. Is that right?


Chris Wheldon

It does. Yeah. maybe I wouldn't characterize it as playing with currency


Stefan Angelini

playing with currency probably exchange rate


Chris Wheldon

Yeah. Yeah. We're wrong I'll take a step back and explain that the different product offerings that Magellan and whether they do or do not have currency hedging.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah


Chris Wheldon

So our Global Fund that you mentioned, which is the sort of broader product that you reference, the sort of 25 stock portfolio, we offer that as a completely hedged or completely unhedged unit cost. So clients, advisors they can sort of pick the degree of hedging like they could do 100 zero, 50 50, whatever split they want between either the fully head for the unhedged.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

But then you're right, within our high conviction strategy, we've got the high conviction fund and high conviction trust. Both of those products have an active currency hedging program built into them. We're not actually trying to drive any additional value from any of the currency decisions we're making. It's actually just trying to take some of the downside risk out of the of those portfolios for Australian investors, investing in these international businesses and which we try to do, is just sort of recognize where the currency is today relative to our you know conservative and rough estimate of where the fair value is. Let's say the Aussie US and if where the meaningful discount what we think the fair value is, you know, we'll look to be pretty hedged at that level.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah.


Chris Wheldon

And as the currency is rising from that level where it is today, back towards fair value. To your point, Stefan, there are gonna be headwinds to investors, Aussie dollar returns from their equity portfolio. We want to offset that currency headwind with the guidance that were saved from that hedge. On the other hand, should the Aussie run through our estimate of fair value an increase to a very high level we want to layer off the hedging and just sort of allow the head to roll off to allow that. And as such, that if the currency moves from that high level back towards fair value, investors are benefiting from that. From that that that that that currency gain


Stefan Angelini

Yeah that macroeconomic playoff feel is so important when investing overseas because you get it wrong, then you can really ride your returns or or magnify even your losses. so getting it right within the strategy, I think it's a big thing. People need to consider it more if they are going to invest overseas. Well, what's going to happen to macro economic environment I was talking to my father not long ago. He bought some shares in the US. I think he bought it back in 2009. The Australian dollar was basically far a far with the US.


Chris Wheldon

Yeah getting ready


Stefan Angelini

Yeah so the actual the investment has dropped in value. But his return has gone up.


Chris Wheldon

Okay


Stefan Angelini

Those things aren't too bad. As a business of Magellan's, a big company got a little you guys who are very clever. Thirty analysts as well. How much money do you manage as a business?


Chris Wheldon

It depends on the day at the moment, the markets. I think I lost. I mean, I would encourage the audience to just jump on the ASX and look at the losses closer to the exact number is this guiding me at the moment? But I think it's roughly in the order of about it in Aussie dollar terms, about 90 billion was it and as you mentioned, that split across out global equities strategy. You also mentioned earlier, Stefan, we've got a listed infrastructure


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

strategy as well. And we also have a domestic equities strategy as well under the elite funds management.


Stefan Angelini

Right. Yep.


Chris Wheldon

So there's Magellan Global as Magellan infrastructure. And then there's early Australian domestic investments.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah okay so 90 billion dollars is a lot of money to a lot of people to keep you guys on your toes when markets move and change and corona virus hits, obviously fund managers like yourself, you're forced to take action to prevent losses. What did you do so March 2020 corona virus hits as a fund. What do you guys do within your fund and your pool?


Chris Wheldon

Yeah,


Stefan Angelini

when that when that first sort of hit.


Chris Wheldon

Yeah, it's it's such a good question, and I touched on it the sort of hinted at this early, but I'll make the point again. We like we focus on absolute returns. We also focus on capital preservation. That's a core objective for our global portfolios, is protecting clients capital in down markets. And of course, we had a pretty, pretty severe draw down back in March. And so if I take a step back, I touched a couple of times in the conversation suggesting we're restrict our universe to very high quality businesses.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

One of the other restrictions we apply to our universe is liquidity. So we want very high quality, but also very liquid investments such that we can, if we think it's appropriate, move out of those positions very quickly. And we tend not to do that very much. You know, we're not traders, we're investors. But certain events happen, such as corona virus. And you want to change the risk settings of a portfolio pretty dramatically. And that's what we did back in early March in the Global Fund and the high conviction portfolios, you know, effectively in a none or two we kind of moved from a mid single digit level of cash in the portfolios. And a couple of days later, we were sitting in the Global Fund close to 17 percent cash in the high conviction strategy at sort of twenty five, twenty to twenty eight percent cash. So we have the ability to move, even though we are managing, you know, we're very fortunate to manage a very large amount of clients money.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

That insistence on liquidity means we can move and shift to a much more defensive posture like we did in March. Very quickly.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah. OK. And then is that act does come back to the old the old saying that cash is king intent when it's when it's down market gives you the great opportunity to buy great businesses at an even better valuation.


Chris Wheldon

yeah I mean, that's that's part of the logic. I say the primary reason we're doing it is just to protect clients capital.


Stefan Angelini

yeah


Chris Wheldon

And, you know, there's there's a couple of tools available to do that. And cash is one of those tools, but it's also changing the composition of the equities within the portfolio as well. So maybe trimming some of the higher growth, higher beta, higher risk cyclical investments towards more stable, steady defensive investment. So it's not just cash cash flow, but it does provide us a lot of optionality now. But it's more in cash as well as things that we can do within the portfolio to add further defensiveness beyond just the cash.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah. Yeah. Yeap yeap and that's part of what you do when you when you're running your own portfolio. For anyone out there that might be trying to run their own portfolio. You've normally got a few different investments within there as well. But you don't have to just go to cash to credit defensive allocation. There's a lot more ways you can tweak your portfolio to create your own defensiveness. Looking at where we were filming this, now it's May 2020. There may be some green light at the end of Corona virus. We're not sure. Who do you think will benefit the most coming out of this whole Covid 19 issue? What sort of businesses do you feel will will have the most upside in the future?


Chris Wheldon

Yeah that's it's just it's such an interesting question. And strangely, and this might sound like confirmation bias. It's really reinforced the view that a conviction on some of the current investments that we have, you know, sort of mentioned a couple of times earlier on that, you know, that the growth in cloud computing, in digital advertising and digital payments or the sort of things we're invested behind those those growth stories in those wonderful businesses without any sort of appreciation for something like coronavirus being around the corner.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah


Chris Wheldon

what it is proved and, you know, the very nature of this conversation we're having now and soon we're on teams as you know, any business that has a meaningful online or digital presence has benefited enormously in this environment. And that has sort of reinforced the trends that you're in the view that we had. Those trends were already in place and we expected to play out gradually over years, if not decades to come. There has been a very meaningful shift in acceleration in that trajectory for a lot of those businesses, and it is benefiting business like Microsoft and Alibaba or Tencent over and over in China Asap so we're also trying to, you know, obviously doing the work on those all those other businesses in our universe, too fun to try and identify some other great investments, potentially we can add to the portfolio. You know, we mentioned we've got a lot of cash at the moment, so we're going to deploy into new great ideas as well. And we're certainly doing that work. But it also just sort of point out that the portfolios have been very well positioned to benefit from this crisis without knowing this exact process was around the corner. Just has accelerated demand for so many businesses in our portfolio during this period.


Stefan Angelini

So you already love the businesses. But if we were to say industries, obviously tech, cloud computing, it's just that that fast drive towards the change that everyone knew was going to happen. It's now happened everyone's working from home. Yeah, 100 percent now Chris, we call this show investor types because people when they invest, they have different personalities. If you were to say someone came to you and said, look, I want to invest into international equities, what would you say is there would should that be their invested top or their personality to be successful in this kind of strategy?


Chris Wheldon

I'm not sure that a successful international investor would be any different from a successful domestic investor. They do need to consider you made a very good point earlier that you need to consider currency because that is one extra additional dynamic that will influence their returns over time. As an international investor, I would even step back further than that and just say the mindset that I should have with their investing domestically or internationally is just as a long term business I know that when you are buying shares in these companies, you are buying a partial ownership interest in that business and your returns over, not the short term, because the share market can do all sorts of remarkable things in the short term.


Stefan Angelini

Yeah


Chris Wheldon

But over the medium to long term, the returns that you are likely to earn from that investment will be very much tethered to the progress of that business. And you are a partial hundred about business so whether you're investing domestically or internationally, I just encourage investors to step back and think about whether this is the sort of business that has the competitive prospects. The management team, when they understand the businesses, whether it's from has the industry growth potential ahead of it. That's something I really want to own the next five to 10 years, not knowing in the short term how prices will move. But that's completely unknowable. But maybe I should think about whether this is the sort of business that I would love to own the next five to 10 years, assuming the share market was closed. Get the share market.


Stefan Angelini

Yeap


Chris Wheldon

Is just this just the sort of fundamental business that you would love to own for the next five, 10 plus years


Stefan Angelini

Perfect. That's that's there's a point. Ladies and gentlemen, so be focused on long term don't be trying to trade too much and be willing to own and be a part of the company for the long term, see growth in the industry and probably just haven't had your eye out for the exchange ratings or what the macro market is doing that's it for the episode Chris, thank you so much for your time. I know you're a busy man, so I really appreciate you coming on.


Chris Wheldon

Pleasure Stefan thank you very much for having us.


Stefan Angelini

No no dramas and for you out there, if you've got any questions, feel free to reach out to us on some comments on YouTube. Otherwise, send an email to stefan@angeladvisory.com.au if you need a getting, have a look into Magellan Magellan got a great website that indicate what all their products are. So we'll leave it there. Thank you all. I'll see you all very soon. Chris, thanks again mate.


Chris Wheldon

Thanks Stefan


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